SFCMarketsandFinanceGertGrobler:Chin

南方财经全媒体集团首席记者施诗 记者李依农 北京报道

Former South African senior diplomat Gert Grobler received a special gift from China.

According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China, President Xi recently replied to a letter written by scholars from 50 African countries, encouraging them to continue to provide intellectual support for building a high-level China-Africa community with a shared future and safeguarding the common interests of the Global South.

As one of the scholars wrriting the letter, Grobler expressed great joy and encouragement upon receiving the reply during an exclusive interview with SFC. He noted that African scholars are well aware of the importance of the China-Africa community and hope to contribute more wisdom to its development through research and discussion.

Grobler pointed out, "We always had a long-standing friendship, but through the FOCAC, it was changed into a multi-sectorial, concrete, measurable and mutually beneficial relationship."

Grobler repeatedly praised the FOCAC during the interview, stating that it has become a model for international cooperation. He emphasized that, despite similar mechanisms with countries and regions such as the U.S., EU, Japan, and Türkiye, none can compare to the depth, breadth, and comprehensiveness of the FOCAC.

In recent years, South Africa's influence in the Global South has grown, and its relationship with China has become increasingly close. Grobler told us that the friendship between China and South Africa remains strong, and South Africa consistently supports the One China principle. "I believe the bilateral relationship will continue to flourish," he said.

SFC Markets and Finance: Would you like to share some details on your letter?

Gert Grobler: I was a senior research fellow and honorary professor at the reputable Institute of African Studies at Zhejiang Normal University in Jinhua. The institute launched a significant think tank initiative called the China-Africa Think Tanks Forum . Over the years, they’ve held 13 of these CATTF meetings, which have contributed significantly to relations between China and Africa, particularly in people-to-people exchanges, academic collaboration, China studies, and Africa studies.

This year, in March, unfortunately, I couldn’t attend the meeting, but it was held in Dar es Salaam. It was a very constructive conference, where, among other things, the Dar es Salaam Consensus between China and Africa was reached. This consensus included several positive measures to further promote China-Africa relations, and I’m confident it will continue to do so in the future.

During the discussions at the CATTF, scholars raised the idea of writing a letter to President Xi to thank him for his efforts in fostering people-to-people exchanges and for his broader contributions to China-Africa relations. That’s how the letter originated.

I was asked by the Institute to draft the letter, which I did in close consultation with several scholars. In the letter, we expressed our gratitude to President Xi for his outstanding guidance and leadership over the years regarding Africa and China. We highlighted several initiatives he had launched and also referred to the positive outcomes of the recent Third Plenary Session. Furthermore, we praised China's role in promoting peace, development, and stability—key pillars of China’s foreign policy. Towards the end, we thanked him again for his efforts in academic exchanges and people-to-people initiatives and expressed our desire for even greater support in continuing these exchanges.

On August 27th, we received a very constructive, highly encouraging, and inspiring response from him. He thanked us for our work and encouraged us to continue with China studies, Africa studies, and efforts related to the Global South, stressing that China, Africa, and the Global South are one.

We were thrilled by the President’s prompt and thoughtful reply. And we responded, once again expressing our gratitude for his encouragement and global leadership in peace, development, and stability. We also mentioned key initiatives PresidentXihad launched, such as the Global Development Initiative, the Global Security Initiative, and the Global Civilization Initiative, emphasizing how inspiring they are to us. In our reply, we committed to working with even more energy and dedication to advance China-Africa relations and broader South-South cooperation.

As scholars, we were deeply encouraged by the President’s letter, especially since it came so quickly. We also mentioned the FOCAC meeting in our letter, and President Xi praised FOCAC, now in its 24th year, as a crucial platform that has improved the lives of millions of Africans and South Africans through various projects across Africa. The outcomes of the FOCAC were also widely welcomed by African leaders, including our president, President Ramaphosa.

In essence, that was the story of the letter. It gave our China-Africa relations and mutual understanding a tremendous boost, adding to all the positive developments at the FOCAC.

SFC Markets and Finance: You mentioned the FOCAC. The FOCAC summit closed in Beijing last week. Did you have any takeaways?

Gert Grobler: I know my country, South Africa,and I know my president is very pleased with the outcome of FOCAC. One could say that the positive results of FOCAC clearly demonstrate that China and Africa are determined to continue broadening the role and influence of FOCAC. It’s not only a critical platform for collective dialogue but, more importantly, a mechanism for practical cooperation.

Looking at the 10 partnership actions and all the projects President Xi mentioned, it’s evident that this will further strengthen the China-Africa comprehensive strategic partnership, raising it to the next level. There were so many positive outcomes, too many to list.

For us in Africa, one of the most exciting points in the 10 partnership actions is China’s support for the Africa Continental Free Trade Area . This initiative will create a free market of 1.4 billion people, with enormous potential. Another key area for Africa is agriculture, where President Xi pledged to help modernize African agriculture by sending 500 experts to assist various countries.

In many ways, this FOCAC was a turning point. FOCAC has always achieved a lot, but this time, there were so many practical, tangible outcomes that it’s no wonder African leaders sincerely welcomed the outcomes of the FOCAC. It has always done great work, but in my view, this was a very special FOCAC, injecting new momentum into our relations.

SFC Markets and Finance: Do you think China-Africa relation will be a role model for other developing countries?

Gert Grobler: I think that FOCAC as a mechanism, is already proving to be a role model.

If we look at Africa’s interactions with the U.S., the EU, Japan, or Türkiye, there are similar frameworks in place. However, none of them match the intensity, breadth, or comprehensive nature of the FOCAC. It simply doesn't exist. Since the inception of FOCAC in 2000, it has significantly contributed, over the last 24 years, to transforming the long-standing friendship and solidarity between Africa and China.

We always had a long-standing friendship, but through the FOCAC, it was changed into a multi-sectorial, concrete, measurable and mutually beneficial relationship. And I say again, no other countries' mechanisms come close—they are far behind in terms of operating with Africa. Not only through the FOCAC, we also have the Belt and Road Initiative .

Throughout my diplomatic career, I’ve been appointed to several countries, including the U.S., Japan, Germany, and Spain. As an ambassador for South Africa, I wasn’t just representing my country—I also worked for Africa. And I must say, in none of these countries did I find the same level of commitment and determination to strengthen relations as with China.

SFC Markets and Finance: You worked in many countries. From your perspective, what’s the difference between China’s approach and the West's approach to Africa？

Gert Grobler: I think what we’re seeing now is that China has made remarkable progress with Africa through FOCAC. First through bilateral relations, then FOCAC, and then the BRI. Africa and China’s trade relations have surged, with trade volumes reaching $282 billion. I’m not even sure where the U.S. stands, but they are far behind, and they’ve often promised things which they never delivered on.

There’s a great degree of skepticism in Africa about its relationships not only with the U.S., but also with the EU and Japan. Their initiatives can’t compare to the comprehensiveness or size of China’s projects. When I arrived at the institute in Jinhua, I was genuinely impressed by the commitment, devotion, and hard work dedicated to fostering relations between China and Africa. At the institute, we were involved in a number of projects—people-to-people exchanges, economic initiatives, and numerous social projects.

China is truly ahead of other countries in this regard. Of course, this has led to negative articles and critical views about China's role in Africa, with claims that China wantsto take over Africa. That’s all nonsense. My African scholar colleagues and I have come to understand China's foreign policy, which is centered around peace, development, and growth, all based on a win-win approach and mutual trust.When I talkabout the West, there's no trust. The trust between China and Africa isata different level compared to that of other countries.

I’m very optimistic about the future of China-Africa relations. As I mentioned earlier, the recent FOCAC has played a crucial role in advancing our relationship to the next strategic level.

SFC Markets and Finance: So you didn’t agree that the West media said China’s investment in Africa is“debt trap”, right?

Gert Grobler: No, that's negative propaganda. It's malicious propaganda. If you look at the real facts, Africa owes Western organizations and institutions, like the World Bank and the IMF, much more than it owes China. So no, this debt trap narrative is a malicious and unfortunate approach that the West is adopting.

Speaking with many of my African colleagues, I can say they don't agree with this approach at all. It's simply not true. And if there were issues with certain countries, even in the context of the BRI, China has always been willing to engage in dialogue and ask, "How can we solve this?"

So no, the debt trap notion is rejected by Africa, and I'm confident it is also rejected by the Global South as a whole.

SFC Markets and Finance: You’re very familiar with China. So If you have a chance to introduce China to the world, what keyword will you use?

Gert Grobler: I had the opportunity to travel to many parts of China, including Beijing and the western regions. I often visited areas near where I was, like Shanghai, Hangzhou, Ningbo, and Guangzhou.

I always tell people about the government's approach to its policies, which puts the people first, aiming to help them reach a higher level of development. The World Bank has noted, and I often mention, that over the past few decades, around 800 million Chinese have been lifted out of poverty.

Additionally, China's foreign policy is rooted in peace, achieved through modernization, reform, and opening up. I always emphasize that China desires peace, stability, and international cooperation. I've often said that China is ready to work with other countries, like Japan or the U.S., if they are willing, to improve conditions in Africa, whether in economics, agriculture, or other areas. But are they stand ready to do that? That's the question. Instead, they come up with false accusations like the so-called "debt trap" and others.

The cultural side of Chinais what struck me most, especially how well you preserve your heritage. I visited many museums and was always impressed by how meticulously they were maintained. Moreover, there are some incredibly beautiful parts of China, with stunning landscapes in the provinces I visited.

I encouraged many of my friends to visit China, and some of them are now planning to go and experience the country firsthand. During my time in your country, I developed a deep admiration and respect for China—its people, its leadership, and its rich 5,000-year-old civilization. I was deeply impressed, and I hope to return in the near future.

SFC Markets and Finance: You also traveled to Guangdong. What’s your impression?

Gert Grobler: Guangdong is simply phenomenal. I was incredibly impressed by the economic activities, the advancements in technology, and the scientific innovation. It's a hub—an extremely busy economic center.

I should also mention that South Africa currently has an embassy in Beijing, of course, and a consulate in Shanghai. However, we are now thinking of opening a consulate in Guangzhou in the near future because of the significant economic, technological, and financial importance of that region.

SFC Markets and Finance: China and African countries will work together to advance their respective modernization. What’s your understanding on Chinese modernization?

Gert Grobler: President Xi often speaks about modernization, and we all know that China is progressing step by step, not only in terms of its economy but in every aspect of the country. I was particularly impressed when I read the documents from the Third Plenum, where President Xi and other officials discussed modernization in great detail. It's not just about modernizing the economy; it's also about modernizing the social system and foreign policy.

As a diplomat, I see China’s foreign policy of promoting peace and solving problems through negotiation and dialogue as part of this modernization process. We hope that other countries will follow this approach.

The Third Plenum presented many significant measures that will help modernize China, not just economically, but across the board. For Africa, there is a strong interest, and when I talk to my colleagues and scholars, they say there are many lessons Africa can learn from the Third Plenum.

This modernization, along with China's existing model for economic growth and development, is something admired by African countries and many developing nations in the Global South. As we've seen at FOCAC, I believe we will witness increased cooperation between African countries and China in all aspects of modernization, whether economic, social policy, or foreign policy.

SFC Markets and Finance: The Global South has been a key force for the international order. How can the Global South countries enhance cooperation on global governance?

Gert Grobler: I think there are several important mechanisms at play. One of them is the Non-Aligned Movement , which meets every year. Another mechanism that is growing in significance is BRICS, which more and more African and Global South countries want to join.

Between the Non-Aligned Movement and BRICS, it’s inevitable that there will be a stronger push for reforms, particularly in the international financial sector. For example, the World Bank and the IMF are dominated by the West, which is completely unacceptable. At FOCAC, the UN Secretary-General, António Guterres, made it clear that we must move to a situation where Africa has a permanent seat in the Security Council.

What we're likely to see is BRICS and the Non-Aligned Movement working together with the common goal of creating a better world, addressing the challenges faced by developing countries, and pushing for reforms. Over the next year, or perhaps two or three, we can expect a strong push from China, BRICS, and the developing world through the Non-Aligned Movement to bring about international reforms in the United Nations and financial institutions.

Next year, South Africa will host the G20. We are very pleased to be a member. There was also a strong push, supported by China and other countries, for the African Union to become a member of the G20, which has now happened.

This upcoming G20 meeting will be a very important forum where Africa and China, along with other developing nations and Global South countries, will present their priorities. Western countries will also be there—whether it's the U.S. president, the French, or the British leaders.

This meeting will be crucial in shaping the agenda for international reforms in the financial sector, the UN, and other global institutions. We are very much looking forward to this G20 summit.

SFC Markets and Finance: South Africa will host the G20 summit next year, and it also hosted the BRICS summit last year. I think South Africa is becoming more important in the developing world. How do you think about China-South Africa relation?

Gert Grobler: I can tell you that the people of South Africa were very pleased with President Ramaphosa’s visit to President Xi. It received widespread television coverage. We've always had a strong relationship with China and have consistently supported the One China Policy, which President Ramaphosa reaffirmed upon his return to South Africa.

During the visit, eight agreements were signed in key areas such as agriculture and housing, which are very important for South Africa.

Additionally, the relationship between South Africa and China was elevated from a comprehensive strategic partnership to an all-round strategic cooperative partnership in the new era. I’m not sure if it can go any higher than that, but that’s where we stand now. I'm very optimistic that this relationship will continue to flourish and grow.

SFC Markets and Finance: Looking ahead, how will China-South Africa relation promote China-Africa cooperation？

Gert Grobler: South Africa plays an important role in Africa. We're one of the largest economies on the continent and play an active role in the African Union in Addis Ababa. In this context, along with regional organizations like SADC and ECOWAS, we will focus on the outcomes of FOCAC and proceed step by step.

Many African presidents had bilateral discussions with President Xi during FOCAC, and as a result, a lot of progress has been made. These countries, through the AU, regional economic communities, or bilateral relations, will now build on this momentum. In my view, FOCAC has given a significant boost and fresh energy to the partnerships between China and Africa.

As I mentioned earlier, FOCAC was something of a turning point, adding a sense of urgency to the relationship between China and Africa.

And as I said, most Africans do not agree with what the US is saying about debt traps or viewing China as a threat. They simply don't accept that.

I'm very optimistic that these relations will continue to grow and flourish.

策划:于晓娜

监制:施诗

制作:蔡于恬

新媒体统筹:丁青云 曾婷芳 赖禧 黄达迅

海外运营监制: 黄燕淑

海外运营内容统筹: 黄子豪

海外运营编辑:庄欢 吴婉婕 龙李华 张伟韬

出品:南方财经全媒体集团